Creationists choose to ignore empirical evidence of science
by Roy Tressler
Nov 27, 2009 | 1747 views | 61 61 comments | 28 28 recommendations | email to a friend | print
Having followed the arguments on these opinion pages made by creationists to support their claims that evolution is false, I offer a few points:

Their arguments are wrong. You can check this out for yourself in Mark Isaak’s “The Counter-Creationism Handbook” or on-line at http://talkorigins.org and http://ncseweb.org. Moreover, these arguments remain wrong no matter how many times creationists repeat them; for they have a tendency to trot out their old arguments no matter how often they’ve been refuted.

Biology is an empirical discipline. Biological knowledge is grounded on empirical facts, not textual citations nor Neo-platonic idealism. Creationists offer no facts to support their contentions. (Apparently, once one is in possession of the “truth,” one can afford to ignore the facts.)

Their arguments are based on a false dichotomy: either evolution is true or a literal interpretation of the Bible is true. For another, many of their arguments are merely variations of the argument from incredulity: “I can’t believe that X is true. Therefore, X is false.”

Moreover, the “debate” for which they so desperately claim that they are clamoring almost always takes place outside of science conferences and peer-reviewed scientific journals, which are the most appropriate venues for it.

I noted above that creationists do not support their contentions with facts, but with biblical citations that they interpret literally. (And, yes, a literal interpretation is still merely one interpretation.)

Creationists are not concerned with science or with empirical truth. If they were, they would not keep repeating their tired, old, oft-refuted arguments. Creationists are out to subvert the Constitution and establish Biblical literalism as the official religion of America. Hence, it makes sense for them to keep repeating refuted arguments because it clouds the issue and makes it appear as if their claims are valid.

These arguments are shortsighted and ultimately self-defeating. Creationists are pushing to use a literal interpretation of the Bible to critique evolution (and eventually, cosmology, paleontology, plate tectonics, physical anthropology and archaeology) in the public schools. But a “science education [that teaches] students to identify assumptions, use critical thinking, make logical deductions and consider alternative explanations” would also enable them to use science to critique creationism (and, indirectly, Biblical literalism). In doing this, students would come to prove for themselves that creationism is pseudo-science. In the ultimate irony, the creationists’ attempt to enhance the authority and prestige of the Bible would end up undermining it.

Wait. Maybe we do want the members of the board of education to be creationists.

ROY TRESSLER, Rome
Comments
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RyanM
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December 05, 2009
I realize that most here probably aren't familiar with the court case in Dover, or all of the tactics employed by institutions promoting creationism, but the video below hits on a LOT of good topics. (too many topics if you aren't familiar with the background)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpeHrkbx9LU

However, his other videos are good too:

http://www.youtube.com/user/AronRa

*Warning - rampant (but funny) sarcasm ahead.*
transported
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December 03, 2009
Roy, No offense taken....I'm sure we'll spar again soon!

until then God Bless.
transported
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December 02, 2009
sorry Roy, didn't mean to piss you off, your right though I do struggle at times fully ingageing my imagination with out visual helps or at least illustrative wording...ok that may be a little lie I have agreat imagination, but still can't seem to get it to work on the TOE
RyanM
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December 02, 2009
Yo Ele- What up?

Funny I have Brave New World on my reading list but I can't find time to get to it. Don't really even know what it's about. ...so I'm taking that as a compliment. (for now. lol)

For your question though, you're talking about two different things.

Self propelled evolution, is really just another way of saying 'Artificial Selection'. Not a big deal, but the other issues relate to applied knowledge and not the actual theory itself.

That being said, I think it's important that we investigate EVERYTHING. The most important thing is that it should never be a crime to investigate the world around us. (Can't stress that enough)

However, the applications are left up to society. Science provides the knowledge, people (flawed philosophies and all) decide HOW we use the knowledge. [think atomic bomb here, or even Nobel and his dynamite]

Personally, I can see positive uses for cloning. Not full beings of course, but imagine if we could get a liver, of my antibody profile exactly, to grow in a saline solution. Heck yeah!

Genetic engineering? Honestly, I see a great amount of potential abuse here. However, imagine if we could identify and correct genetic defects before a child is born? Wow. Think of all the lives you could save, and abortions you could prevent. A pretty cool aspect to me.

Short Answer: I'm all for the research and investigation, but I can't speak about the applications until we actually know what they are. Even then nothing in this world is black and white.
ElephantWhip
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December 02, 2009
Wow, RyanM, that sounds like a brave new world. Very Huxley of you. Which brings another question: how do you feel about self-propelled evolution via cloning, genetic engineering, etc.?
RyanM
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December 02, 2009
Funny, I was just reading Title IV of the EEOC code today (the most liberal definition of religion I've ever seen the government use), and sadly all the mental gymnastics in the world couldn't get the TOE under this umbrella.

So, no religious holidays, or funny rituals for me to annoy my coworkers with. :( lol

Seriously though, be careful what you wish for. If evolution was declared a religion, do you realize how many people we could education when everything is tax free, including donations?

Wow. We could use all the allure of camaraderie, song, and community service to actually make learning interesting, to more people.

Almost brings a tear to my eye.

transported
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December 02, 2009
Religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.
transported
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December 02, 2009
common sense: sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts

hope the above definition helps you, though I doubt it will

you wish to discredit "religion" but then claim NOMA?!?!

Again evolution IS a religion not science...
transported
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December 02, 2009
Its all good Ryan
RyanM
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December 02, 2009
My bad Trans. I should have noticed that you addressed that post to Roy.

(although, in my defense, parts of it sounded like they were from our conversation)

Later

romeboy2
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December 01, 2009
Mipoco

Am I offending you? Sounds like you need a lesson in words you speak. Would you be able to back up anything you say? Using acronyms to fill a void in your life is very unsettling. Who cares about the Alabama nut? It sounds like you would argue with a wall. BTW if your a georgia tech fan, HA! GO DAWGS! (I know unfit, but I was excited)
transported
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December 01, 2009
Ryan...is it fair to call foul when you debate questions for Roy..didn't think so oh well

that article is pretty funny.

and by the way your (NOMA)sphere is touching my sphere :)

take care friend
RyanM
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December 01, 2009
“”with no REAL proof, believers claim evidence but never show it, or its too lofty, or we have to use terms that you can't understand...””

And this is why the comments on these boards never bother me. If you can’t even define evolution, I wouldn’t expect you to understand the things they teach at the university level.

“I refuse to give up my common sense for something that makes no sense.”

Hey, that’s you’re right, but I personally think it’s better to have a little bit of sense about all of the world, than complete understanding of the very small world you live in.

“"Well, to believe this, you have to believe in a God that is purposely, and unequivocally deceitful." not real sure what you mean by this...””

The God of your original statement would be deceitful because it expects us to believe in something for which there is not a single shred of proof, AND to disregard everything we observe upon investigation of the world around us.

I am starting to rethink things though. This seems like pretty good evidence for creation.;

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/god_introduces_new_bird
transported
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December 01, 2009
Roy,

"maybe you can enlighten me as to your reason for conflating religion and science" actually I think we all do that, and I'm not sure there is a "true" NOMA...the spheres have to come in contact at some time...

I didn't buy into evolution before I became a Christian, to me it has always just been a theory(an unproved assumption) with no REAL proof, believers claim evidence but never show it, or its too lofty, or we have to use terms that you can't understand...

I refuse to give up my common sense for something that makes no sense...like global warming ;)
transported
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December 01, 2009
I knew you would like my global warming comment

"Well, to believe this, you have to believe in a God that is purposely, and unequivocally deceitful." not real sure what you mean by this...
RyanM
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December 01, 2009
“”God is eternal ("thus not open to scientific investigation " R.T) He created everything as it is(well before the fall...), yet we try to use science to explain that which He created...no wonder (science) can't connect the dots “”

This is pretty much a foundational idea of science. Science, by its very definition cannot take a stance on ‘God’. See- Non Overlapping Magisteria.

“Look at the global warming fiasco...yet we are expected to go along with the leading scientists???”

LoL – Please, I beg you. Do NOT explain this comment. (sadly, real science doesn’t sell magazines, or boost ratings)

“…. why is it so hard to understand that plants, animals, and humans, were formed as they are(were before the fall which caused multiple changes)?”

Well, to believe this, you have to believe in a God that is purposely, and unequivocally deceitful. Personally, I’m just more optimistic than that.

Additionally, people who believe in this specific tenant are usually the same ones that ferociously claim that morals are 100% absolute, never changing, and handed directly to man by God. The deceit in this one act alone (not to mention all the other stories), is enough to make the idea of ‘good’ meaningless.

Personally, I’m cool with people believing in a God. Doesn’t bother me in the slightest. However, if a particular belief system doesn’t coincide with reality I’m going to speak up. To do anything less is to do a disservice us all.

…or the short answer to the above question:

I can’t believe that statement because above all else I worship truth.

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